Wolff suggests Trump’s candidacy may be driven by both personal ambitions and legal pressures, while Shringla views the Indo-U.S. partnership as resilient, with continued cooperation in areas like trade and technology. Their insights offer a nuanced look at what a Trump resurgence might mean for America and its allies.
Excerpts from the discussion, lightly edited for style.
Q: In 2017, in Fire and Fury, you had written that he never really wanted to win. He never thought he could win. He only wanted to be the most famous man in the world. What do you think when he is fighting for re-election this time, why does he want to win, and why does he want to be on the ballot?
Wolff: He wants to win because, for one reason because that is the way, probably the only way he will stay out of jail. So it’s, it is kind of elemental. However, the other, the other reason, the broader reason, is that his basic interest is not being the President of the United States. His basic interest is being Donald Trump, the most famous man in the world, and he’s kind of boxed himself into a corner in order to be the Donald Trump that we know he has to be, either the President or running for President. So it’s existential for him, existential because the only way he will stay out of jail is to be in the White House, and the only way he can continue to be the most famous man in the world is if he becomes President.
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Q: Tell us about his understanding with Elon Musk, the Tesla CEO. From what we have read he is likely to become the chief of the efficiency commission in the White House if Trump is elected.
Wolff: There is no such thing as an efficiency commission. Trump makes a lot of promises to a lot of people, and I think, I think some off the top of his head, he came up with this idea of an Efficiency Commission, which means nothing. I suppose that Elon Musk has an agenda. He wants something. He wants a better business environment for himself, and he sees that as he sees the way to get that through supporting Donald Trump.
Elon Musk is the richest man in the world, so he may have ambitions beyond that. One of the things that there is a lot of speculation about is that Elon Musk is trying to ultimately elect JD Vance, Trump’s vice presidential pick, as an ultimate president. So we don’t, we don’t know, he’s a rich man. He has given an enormous amount of money to Donald Trump. Obviously, he wants something for it. However, the other interesting point about this is that both men, Elon Musk and Donald Trump, see themselves as kind of kings of the world. So, is there room for two kings of the world? I will tell you that certainly in Donald Trump’s White House, there would not be and I would expect that Elon Musk will depart his love for Donald Trump in tears at some point.
Q: You had a front-row view of Trump’s presidency. I would like to ask you what is currently motivating his strong views on immigration. He said many harsh things, probably harsher than his previous campaigns. What is going for him right now? Who’s motivating all of this?
Wolff: He is just motivated to win. He has always felt that his singular issue, the issue that won him the presidency in 2016 was immigration. So he has just continued. Trump always continues to do what has worked for him in the past. Actually, often, he continues to do what hasn’t worked for him in the past. He continues to do more accurately what he has always done and his political career is built on immigration or baiting the immigration issue, and he is now continuing to do that.
Q: You are someone who has interviewed Trump and so many people who are close to him, what is the real understanding within his family? What is their role in the current election campaign? You were one of the people who recently said nobody is talking about his relationship with Melania Trump right now. Could you give us a sense of the background, what are his terms with the family right now?
Wolff: Let us start with his wife. Trump has been campaigning for two years. His wife’s first campaign appearance on his behalf was just the other day, six days from the election. She has never, in all of his court appearances she has never once been at his side. It has always been quite unclear where she lives. She has already been saying that if he wins again, she will be spending most of her time in New York. I mean, I think that there are reasonable questions here. I mean, questions that would be asked of any other politician or candidate, certainly someone who might be the president, what exactly is the nature of the marriage? Are you really married in fact, or is it an arrangement?
So these, these questions obviously hang out there. As for, for the other major family relationship which has been with his daughter, who was in the White House, had a job in the White House during his presidency, and his son-in-law, her husband, Jared Kushner, who had a seniormost position in the White House, and they have kept their distance from Trump. Never appeared with him, and seemed like his wife, you might infer to be shunning him.
Q: Have you ever, in your interviews with Donald Trump, understood his relationship with some foreign leaders because he has always maintained that he can stop the Ukraine-Russia war within 24 hours if given a chance? Does he have any sort of understanding with Vladimir Putin? Has there ever been some sort of strong foreign interference or foreign support for his campaign?
A: We don’t know that there have been investigation after investigation, deep investigations into this question. So there’s been clearly an enormous amount of suspicion about the nature, the meretricious nature, of the Trump-Putin relationship, but we don’t know. Trump does this thing that he likes to imply that there is a relationship, but then, of course, when there’s an investigation, he denies there’s a relationship. And this idea that there would be no wars if he, if Donald Trump, were president because other leaders would be afraid to go to war and to affect the interests of the United States if Donald Trump were president because they don’t know what Donald Trump would do because they suspect he’s a crazy man. Is it part of Trump, the image that he likes to protect? Does it have any substance? Donald Trump is vastly more interested in image than substance.
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Q: Do you think the mini trade deal which we were negotiating so closely in the last year of the First Trump presidency could be back on the table if he wins?
Shringla: Absolutely, I think it’s logical that the trade deal that we were so close to concluding at the end of Trump’s presidency would be back on the table. I think both sides would benefit, even a partial trade deal that would allow a certain amount of goods to go in at low or no duty rates into both countries. I think that would boost trade, boost confidence, and it would be good for both countries. So that certainly seems to be on the cards if Trump comes back.
Q: But there has been a lot of momentum in Indo-US ties over the last four years. We have seen Critical and Emerging Technologies (iCET) take off in a big way. We have big ambitions in the Indo-Pacific. Do you think the progress that India and US have made on trade, on semiconductors, on AI and technology and clean energy manufacturing, do you think that could be undone or maybe reviewed if Trump were to win?
Shringla: I personally don’t think so. See, every presidency adds to that relationship. I mean, after all, the term Indo-Pacific was coined during the Trump presidency, and President Biden took it forward. The Quad was revitalised by Trump, where he first brought it to the level of foreign ministers, and President Biden then convened the Quad at the level of heads of state and government. So, every presidency does its bit to take forward that relationship.
There are certain areas of cooperation which involve India, which I think either side would be happy to work on and develop further. These include areas like technology, areas, including the iCET, where I think we have made some good progress on very, very critical technologies, and, of course, on areas that involve providing a boost to trade investments, the startup and technology sectors, all of these will get a boost, irrespective of who’s in power in the United States.
For the entire discussion, watch the accompanying video
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